because of stories like this, that can paint the picture to the voters that obama's not playing ball. >> trying to explain this to somebody from pluto. say in australia now. saying when congress wrote the cliff, defined it, spend cuts, increases on income, tax increase on state. they wrote it up as this horrible thing that nobody would want to face. either side, right? they designed it that way. now they're walking right over that cliff. over niagra falls. explain. >> it's like congress is on pluto and we're all on earth. they say they want deficit reduction. if you go over the cliff, you get deficit reduction, you just don't get it in the responsible, accountable way. it's like chopping off on arm. >> like says i want a shower, i'm going to niagra falls. >> they still can't get it done. we're dysfunctional. no other explanation. >> i think they can stop the roller coaster and make it go. they're doing a dance now because republicans don't want to do something to rates. obama wants to play hardball. but i think they'll have a different argument later in the year. >> i guess both belie